Everyone already perceived that Bolsonaro is a maniac"

 
Marcia Tiburi: "Outside of Brazil, everyone already perceived that Bolsonaro is a maniac"

By: Juan Manuel Palomino Domínguez: Interview with Marcia Tiburi, Brazilian philosopher and writer exiled during the Bolsonaro era.

In May 1933, in front of the Berlin Opera in Germany, approximately forty thousand people applauded the burning of books by contemporary intellectuals such as Einstein, Stephen Zweig, Jacob Wassermann and Freud shouting "Against Marxists, Jews and Materialists!" Freud, in particular, would be persecuted and accused of being a pornographer, pedophile and pervert, among other things, because of his theories about psychoanalysis, which would eventually become a fundamental pillar in the structure of modern Western thought.

Months after the seizure of power, the Nazis invaded and destroyed the Institute of Sexology, where investigations were conducted to discern human sexual behavior. Throughout this period, Freud tried to move away from the leftist proclamations to keep the Berliner Psychoanalytisches Institut (BPI) running, but the Nazis took a new turn and put the institute at the service of a Hitlerian psychotherapy that, curiously, would have as one of its most prominent defenders to Carl Jung.

Jean Joseph Goux says in "Freud and the religious structure of Nazism" that Hitler's messianic and religious discourse transcended his imbalanced psyche and had strategic purposes for mass domination. Hitler was a maniac who understood the power of structured political rhetoric over the power of religiosity and that of an ideal of being German. This served to quickly begin, and without room for debate, an infernal persecution of artists, intellectuals, homosexuals, gypsies, Jews, blacks and anyone who did not fit the ideal of the German nation.



The independent intellectual and artistic activity was totally annulled or controlled by the regime. The exile came to great names like Fritz Lang, Sigmund Freud, Theodor Adorno, Walter Benjamin, Annie Fischer, among others. It is also worth remembering that during the period of Hitler's government the exhibitions of artists such as Picasso, Henri Matisse and Marx Ernst were banned, to name a few, considered impure or perverse, contrary to the interests and pure spirit of the German people.

It is almost impossible, with this scenario, not to make analogies with what happened and still happens in Brazil. The cases of Marcia Tiburi, Jean Wyllys, Debora Diniz, among others, are paradigmatic and seem to obey the same sequence of persecution and slander that led to the exile of these great figures in Nazi Germany almost a hundred years ago.

The production of what is now known as "fake news" (Freud was the biggest target of fake news that fueled the idea that he was a sexual pervert), was practiced in the official and unofficial newspapers of the party (a logic similar to the one followed by Marcos Peña trolls). "Der Angriff" was a newspaper founded by Joseph Goebbels in 1927 and had an editorial line that spread hatred towards the "system" using aggressive and direct language. His most recurring themes were anti-Semitism, the demonization of intellectuals, traditional politics, democracy and "perverse and communist art." Similar to the work done in the MBL media (Brazil Free Movement), one of the forces responsible for organizing the demonstrations that culminated in the impeachment of Dilma Roussef.

Marcia Tiburi began to be boycotted and screened after an episode on January 24, 2018, when she left a Guaíba radio show when she met with one of the MBL leaders, Kim Kataguiri, who was and remains an active participant of several actions of censorship of artistic exhibitions such as “Queermuseu - Cartographies of the difference in Brazilian art”, or of the participation of Judith Butler in the debate on democracy in the SESC Pompeia.

Tiburi will write about the episode:

“… I do not allow myself to participate in a program that will tend to become a grotesque show in which two languages ​​that do not connect would be exposed in a kind of ring, in which the arguments lose meaning in the face of an already known speech (I made a reflection on this in my book "The Art of Writing for Idiots), which has several disseminators, from post-teens to psychotic acquaintances ..."

Shortly after, Marcia suffered a progressive series of attacks and defamations from different sectors of the right: Flavio Bolsonaro (the president's son) and several MBL youtubers, among others, published a video of her doing an anthropological analysis of the mechanisms ( as context, social situation and financial situation) that can lead a person to trigger a robbery. In the video, Marcia does not justify or perform an apology for the assault, but analyzes that there are contexts that can launch someone to commit this action. The video, viralized on WhatsApp, YouTube and the rest of the media, accompanied by a subtitle that appeals to sensitive points of the common citizen, such as the problem of security and social violence, contributed to generate a sense of insensitivity to the intellectual figures of the country, and particularly a resentment of the middle class towards their particular figure. The same manipulation strategy employed by the Nazis almost a century ago.

The writer began to receive threats through the networks, by email and by phone. In April 2018, she had to cancel the presentation of her book “Feminism in common”, due to the lack of security due to the threats and complaints received by the organizers and the writer herself.

“I was persecuted all year. All my events and book launches have been boycotted, or there was a promise of invasion. Many threats ... threats like "when you're signing a book, I'm going to kill you ... Several of these guys were in line for the launch of my book, they often even bought the book to enter. Once they entered, they suddenly jumped into the audience and made a fuss. This became very dangerous, because it was not a danger just for me, it was a danger to Brazilian culture, it is a danger to literary culture. ”

"People want to go to an event to listen, listen to a writer ... The last event I attended, which was in November 2018, was very significant because there were death threats and invasion ... I went to talk about literature, the campaign and It was over, the extreme right had already won. But they don't leave you alone. You can't be a writer, you can't write novels ... it was sad to see that armed security. People, five hundred people being checked by security guards, people who wanted to attend a literary event. The threats occurred on the street, by email, at events, by phone. I decided that for my own safety, but also for the safety of the people who accompany me, who live with me, even in these events, it was best that I leave Brazil. ”

(Excerpts from “In Brazil, the stimulus to kill comes from the top down”, interview available on YouTube)

Brazil is currently suffering an important exodus of intellectuals, artists, professors and political activists. Known and unfamiliar. The anonymous exodus is far superior to that of public figures. Since the appearance of Steve Bannon on the stage of global politics, digital trolls or haters are the mechanism to perform that dirty work of intimidation and defamation of the opposition to the neo-liberal ultra right. Marcia Tiburi is one of the victims of this dirty digital war.

Do you think there is a way to do philosophy without doing politics?

Certainly, philosophy is a certain politics of truth, one that fights for its exposure. Ideology is, in turn, the policy of concealment of truth. It is a shame that people have been led back to our country by the capitalist and neo-liberal ideology that conceals the truth. They should have worried about criticism, that is, analysis and reflection, which would be the path to the truth.

A very interesting example today so that we understand what the truth is in practice: the truth is what comes to light today with stories made by the journalists of The Intercept (who denounced that the prosecution of Lula was a political move). And why do we really talk about it? Because it's about looking directly at what happened, at the evidence. When we really talk we talk about facts and their proof. No of intentions or other abstractions.

Traditional media in Brazil play the role of creating ideologies, that is, creating cover-ups. Alternative media have the opportunity to reveal the truth through de-concealments. In fact, historically this is also what philosophy has always done, uncover. But people don't seem to like the truth much. And that is a characteristic of the truth, when it arises in power games, it is always the part that dislikes.

Derrida developed the concept of phagogocentrism, in other words, the idea that philosophy was a closed circuit for white men of Eurocentric origin and thought. Does philosophy still need to be occupied by other bodies, sensibilities other than Eurocentric man?

Feminist philosophers have known this for a long time. Derrida's term is very happy because it condenses a whole critique of the historical theme of philosophy that still exists, but is being overcome by new themes. This critique of the philosophical theme embodied in this type of body "white and European" was already in the book "Dialectic of Enlightenment", 1947. There the philosophers Adorno and Horkheimer already denounced Eurocentrism, machismo and capitalism, as well as the Fascist mystification that we see returning today under "tropical" molds.

Today's question is also "geopolitics," especially after criticisms of colonization, and forces us to discuss the order of discourse more and more, that is, the production of thought at a time when the economic system tries to eliminate reflection in some way and for that uses the old and well-known cultural industry.

Four of the most important exiles of the Bolsonaro period, involve two intellectuals and women activists (you, Marcia Tiburi and Debora Diniz), the first deputy assumed in favor of the rights of LGBTQI (Jean Wyllys) and the writer Anderson França, a activist for the end of police violence and extreme poverty in the peripheries. Add to this the increasing persecutions and threats against The Guardian and The Intercept journalist Glenn Greenwald. What could you reflect on this?

There are several intellectuals and activists who have already left the country, some have not been news. And I am not even going to comment on who these people are because in these situations of persecution, death threats, reprisals, everything that happened to us, and also happens to these people, everyone knows what is best for himself. But there are several people who left Brazil. These people left Brazil not because they don't like Brazil, or consider Brazil a worse place to live, or that there are other better places to live in the world. They are not elections. In our case it was not a choice.

In my case, I consider myself expelled from Brazil. Virtually expelled. I suffered an unusual type of intimidation and threats. The defamation and false news campaign against me was enormous, and at the same time I always hoped we could get over it. That all this would be fleeting. That the figures that were responsible for creating the lies and slander against me would be overcome and unmasked over time.

Today people don't know where I live. There are many people who think that I am living in Paris, there are people who think that I am living in the United States. People don't know where I live simply because I haven't decided where to stay. So, I transit between several countries. Sometimes living in a friend's house, sometimes receiving invitations from universities. I will only establish a whereabouts in September.

In what has changed your life today, what are the psychic, physical and spiritual consequences of your situation?

Today I can evaluate it as follows: the psychological cost is immense, the economic cost is immense, the emotional cost for families is immense. The professional cost is immense. At the same time, those in this situation have the solidarity of many people, especially international solidarity. In my case, I have a lot of support from all Brazilians who are outside of Brazil, and I have the support of several people from other countries and institutions from other countries. And that is why I will be able to choose where to stay from September.

So, I keep writing, luckily. I have this feature, I am still working in my writing area. Surely I went through a destruction of a way of life and a family organization. But it is not the biggest tragedy in Brazil. The greatest tragedy in Brazil is what is done with our Indians, our young blacks, our poor and our nature. And Europe now realizes what Bolsonaro also believes about ecology.

I also realize the weakening of the power of this abject president in our country and outside our country. Outside of Brazil, everyone has realized that he is a maniac. In Brazil, many people already realized, many people already knew. But there are people who follow the authoritarian leader. It is these people who make up the scenario of current Brazilian fascism. And unfortunately, these people are also very strong, because they make a lot of noise, and many of them have a lot of power, including and especially economic power. Of course, the lower middle class that accompanies it has no economic power, but acts by imitating the authoritarian leader, trying to obtain a place next to these figures, identifying with these figures and their authoritarian actions.

If our history continues to repeat the laws that seem to have governed it since its inception, this period of conservative anger will end (possibly after considerable economic and human devastation). How do you think you will feel when all this is over? Can you do this controversial futurology exercise?

Your question is very curious. How to think about the future? How to think where we will be, what would we do after all this is over? What can happen? If we look at the examples of the cycles of totalitarian governments, of totalitarian states that have already caused human disasters in the world, it may be too optimistic to say that we will survive everything. So what can happen? What happened to the Germans after Hitler's passage through Germany? What happened to the people of Cambodia? From Vietnam? What happens today to the various peoples who have suffered their totalitarian regimes in the most diverse ways?

I want to maintain optimism, considering that we can resist collectively. I confess that I am not worried about myself, at all. Although threatened, I was able to leave Brazil because I wrote many books and was rescued by an institution that protects writers around the world. So, as a writer and as a professor of philosophy, I am protected and really not worried about me. I'm worried about people who couldn't protect themselves. Either as activists or as ordinary citizens who are moving forward with their lives today. I am not helpless, I am supported by international institutions. I am worried about Brazilians who have been brainwashed excessively, I am concerned about those who have not chosen this delusional government and yet suffer the effects of it. I am concerned about the security of the objectives of government assassins, people who by mistake, wit or stupidity, voted for figures that today promise the death of marginalized populations. I worry that there are people in Brazil who have crossed the line of common sense and human dignity, without respecting the basic rule of our civility that is "not to kill."

I hope we can overcome it. We keep fighting for it. We are thinking about projects, thinking about how to rescue Brazil. But we need to do this today with much intelligence, more skill and aptitude. We need to be even more lucid today to understand what the needs are to achieve our reconstruction.